Thanos vs. Darkseid

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Now, I know that Thanos is something of a Darkseid rip-off. Heck, Thanos creator Jim Starlin has said as much himself. However, Thanos has grown far beyond his early appearences. Whereas Darkseid , who epitomized cool villains when Kirby created the guy, has become akin to the cliche'd villian in my eyes, with the typical motivations towards chaos, ruin, and rule; Thanos has motivations quite different, and they have changed dramatically several times. Originally, everything Thanos did, he did for his beloved Mistress Death. Every planet ground under foot, every civilization cast into ruin, every murder commited was for his love of Death; an attempt to gain her favor.

Most notorious was his gaining the Infinity Gems and becoming the supreme being in the Marvel Universe, at which time he extinguished half of all sentient life in the entire cosmos. Short of destroying all life, there can be no blacker deed. However...his reason for it was to gain enough favor with his beloved so that she would recognise him as the only being in creation fit to be her consort. Perverse? yes. Twisted? Absolutely. Unique? You betcha! However, this scheme failed as his previous efforts have, because subconciously Thanos knew that he was not worthy to wield such power, and so he planted the seeds of his own defeat. If you really wanna nitpick, this could be similar to a villain blabbing his plot to his captive nemesis, only to later loose his captive and be undone. But, the way in which Starlin incorporated this obviously insane tendancy into the psyche of his creation was and remains different. Now, I could go into great detail about how later he decided to do things for the sake of knowledge (which he had always used as a partial motivator before anyway.), and still later developed a desire to reshape the cosmos in his own image. However, I have detailed some of that previously, but to go on would be to drift too far away from the gist of the matter, and thats a fight between the Mad Titan, and the ruler of Apokolips.

So, without further ado...Lets get Ready to boogie! Time to take a look at the contestants...

Charge #1: "The Omega Effect would destroy Thanos"

Okay, while this may be a somewhat valid argument, I can counter it. First off, Thanos is, like his foe Adam Warlock, somewhat outside the loop of destiny, and the warping effects of the Omega Beams may be useless against him. It is doubtful that Thanos could thus be rendered non-existent by the Omega effect. Also, Darkseid has never destroyed a being as powerful as Thanos with the Omega effect to my knowledge ( though I could be wrong ). Thanos was formerly rendered practically immortal by Death's decree. Immortality is a curse to Thanos, who seeks only Death's embrace. More recently, it seems as if Thanos has patched things up with Death, and thus avoided the pitfall of total immortality. Thanos has also taken on beings more powerful than himself, and arguably much more powerful than Darkseid, and held his own. Chief among these examples are his battles against Odin, Lord of Asgard, and Tyrant, Spawn of Galactus. Both beings dished out a ton of punishment, and Thanos more than held his own with these Godlike beings, and this was before Death had cursed Thanos with immortality. Lastly, the Omega Effect was useless against Doomsday, who went on to mortally injure Darkseid with a mere 4 blows. Had Superman not used a Mother Box to boost Darkseid's regenerative powers, Darkseid would have died that day.

Charge #2: "Darkseid is just more powerful"

Okay...straightforward, and quite wrong. Where is the evidence? Sure, Darkseid is powerful...but his might meant absolutely squat against Doomsday, and the mighty Galactus. Now, Galactus is head and shoulders above both Thanos and Darkseid in terms of power, yet Thanos withstood beings close to that level of Power in Tyrant and Odin. And besides, even if Darkseid were more powerful, Thanos has defeated beings of greater might than himself. He totally embarrassed the egotistical Champion, who was in possession of the Power Infinity Gem at the time. During the Infinity War, he defeated a duplicate of himself that had been bestowed with even greater power by its creator, the Magus. Later, he stood up to an insane Thor, who was at that time in possession of the aforementioned power gem. In the Marvel vs DC crossover, Thanos brushed aside Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, and Lobo with ease, and these are some of the most powerful characters in the DC Universe. So, even if Darkseid is more powerful, which is not proven by any stretch, Thanos has defeated beings with greater power than himself, due to his superior skills and sheer willpower. When it comes to fighting skill, Thanos is a Master, while Darkseid typically depends on sheer power to win his battles for him. In other words, Thanos fights with his head...and thus Darkseid looses.

Charge #3: "Darkseid is more intelligent and cunning"

Sure, he sits on that hole of a planet all day and listens to idiots who constantly plot his downfall. What does Thanos do? Isolates himself on a nondescript world, and surrounds himself with robotic yes men who would never cross him in a million years. Sure, Darkseid is a great planner...but Thanos is his equal and more. Thanos has held the entire cosmos within his grasp no less than 4 times, and had Thanos gotten over his subconscious desire to loose in any of those occasions, we'd all be wearing orange and blue costumes right now. What has Darkseid managed to do lately? Get himself trapped on the wall surrounding the source, eventually escape, piss off and get his ass handed to him by Superman. The ultimate proof of Thanos cunning? He managed to pull one over on Mephisto. That, my friends, is an accomplishment. In the intelligence department...Thanos has technology easily the equal of Darkseid's. Heck, Thanos even constructed his own time machine. Does Darkseid own one of those babies? Hmmmmm....don't recall one (although, to his credit, Darkseid has used beings with the ability to traverse the time-stream.). Also, Thanos possesses vast arcane knowledge that he acquired in life, and in Death.

Charge #4: "Darkseid controls a whole planet"

Yep. And Thanos controlled an interstellar armada of Space pirates from his starship, Sanctuary, which is the size of a small planet. He used the might of this armada to take control of his home planet of Titan, the Saturnian moon. But, Thanos used his conquered world as a staging ground for his ultimate plan. If Thanos wished to rule a whole world, he would rule a world, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Besides, Thanos lives on an unremarkable world in a remote solar system that has no other intelligent life upon it, under the guise of a simple farmer. Thanos _does_ value his privacy after all. Thanos has also recently upgraded and refitted his various hideouts across the Cosmos, and has a fleet of robotic starships, so make no mistake...the man has power and resources.

Charge #5: "Thanos subconsciously supplies the means to his own downfall"

This is a good point, and it could be a deciding factor. It could, if Thanos was shooting to rule the cosmos by going through Darkseid. Thanos has shown again and again, that for the sake of a scrap, his subconscious desires to fail have no bearing. Thanos fights when he seeks a challenge in order to prove himself..and against Darkseid, Thanos would prove himself once again.

Charge #6: "Thanos is not as patient or as calm as Darkseid"

Simply untrue. The people who tend to bring this up state that Thanos has been known to fly into fits of rage and loose his head. That is true. But, I have seen Darkseid do the exact same thing (some incidents during "Legends" and "Crisis on Infinite Earths" come to mind), sometimes with almost no provocation. Thanos is every bit as patient as Darkseid, and his logic is just as sharp. Overconfidence also can be lumped in here, and while Thanos has been guilty of it from time to time, I judge Darkseid to be his superior in this trait. Thanos tends not to act (most of the time) without as much information as he can possibly glean about a foe or objective.

"In Closing "

Well, that's a list of the main charges. I didn't even bother countering such lame statements like "Darkseid is just cooler!", or "Darkseid is the MAN!". Such things are not supported by any evidence, and some people have made valid arguments, but lack the necessary information in regards to Thanos and his abilities. Some have assumed that Darkseid is smarter, more powerful, or more patient. I believe that I have presented evidence that clearly shows that those assumptions are clearly false. More to the point, I think I have shown that Thanos and Darkseid are somewhat evenly matched, with Thanos' superior fighting skills, and his true immortality (as opposed to being immune to death by old age.) giving him a distinct edge in combat. So, in my view, the answer is clear. Thanos would indeed prove himself victorious in a one-on-one battle with Darkseid.

Now before any of you Darkseid fanatics get all upset, remember...these are characters who have no existence outside the pages of their respective appearances, or the minds of their creators. All of this is opinion, and in comics anything is possible. If any of you out there wish to challenge my points in a thoughtful manner, by all means e-mail me, or post a rebuttal to the Silver Surfer Board. Any thoughtful post will receive attention. Any postings that merely state I'm an Idiot and dead wrong, or content to that extent shall receive nothing but a cold-shoulder.

Comments:

These thoughtful comments arrived to me courtesy of Azmodi, who has had many an argument on AOL with such gurus as John Byrne and Kurt Busiek:

1) A) Why Thanos Can't be Erased: To some hairsplitters, being erased and dying are different things. But, it's moot since Death and Oblivion have been shown as the same being. Therefore, Thanos can't be erased because Death would still be claiming him.

B) Darkseid erases people from the Source, but Marvel doesn't have a "Source." This is pretty weak, but I figured I'd mention it.

C) My personal favorite (I came up with this theory), no one has ever beaten it, not even super Marvel knowledge guru Kurt Busiek. Basically, if you erase Thanos, the Infinity Gauntlet affair never happened and the Living Tribunal's judgement on the Infinity Gems is nullified. But, only the Supreme One can overrule LT and LT's ruling transcend time and space, as he does. Erasing Thanos would inadvertantly overturn LT's ruling, since the whole IG Saga never happened. Therefore, it's an impossibility.

2) Thanos gets disintegrated: Aside from his ability to dodge, Thanos has also shown the ability to restructure matter (turned Skragg to stone). Most interesting of all, however, is hia statement in TQ #1 when Thanos says, "I always stay true to myself." While this is happening he is frozen, shattered, melted, and warped but always returns to his "true self." Wouldn't it make sense, and be in line with all his other abilities, that Thanos "stays true to himself" in his own reality as well, i.e. he can't be disintegrated? I think so. So much for Darkseid's most potent weapons...

Thanks Azmodi! Those are some great points, and any Darkseid backers need to consider them.

Another point to consider:

A frequent poster to the Silver Surfer board named Mash ( Who has openly claimed that he sees no "merit" in cosmic characters...yet still posts to the SS board. Interesting eh? ) has come up with a method he believes will gain Darkseid a victory over Thanos should they battle.

The method he cites was utilized by Darkseid during the "Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey" miniseries. In it, Darkseid used his Omega effect to destroy the body of the villian, Cyborg, and then transport his conciousness into a small sphere for safekeeping.

Mash speculates that this method of 'encapsulization' would give Darkseid a victory over the mad Titan, by converting the body of his foe into energy and subsequently entrapping him.

The theory is interesting...but flawed.

First off, Thanos is a cosmic Eternal. Cosmic Eternals maintain "total mental control over their physical form and bodily processes, even when asleep or unconcious" ( source: Handbook of the Marvel Universe Volume 2, Issue #6. Entry for the Eternal known as Ikarus ).

Thanos shares this trait with his bretheren. Moreover, his willpower is strong in the extreme. As Azmodi mentioned above, even the influences of myriad dimensions during his travels in "The Thanos Quest" #1 could not stop Thanos, who always returned to his true form. As Thanos himself stated, "Reality, like all outside influences, has a minimal effect on my being. I always hold true to myself".

Mash will most likely revert to his usual argument and dub Thanos' comments "hyperbole", as he always does when a character's own comments are used as evidence ( Ahem...unless its a character he likes. Ah, theres the rub! ). Nonetheless, the evidence stands as Thanos is living up to his claim by maintaining his form even in the midst of an interdimensional malestrom.

Its quite simple...Darkseid would have to overcome Thanos' own willpower in order to trap the Titan in such a manner, and I don't think the Lord of Apokalips is up to that task.